Honesty as a Weapon

There’s a difference between being honest and using honesty as cover for cruelty.

In this episode, we unpack the kind of “honesty” that shows up as unsolicited criticism, backhanded comments, judgment disguised as concern, and the familiar excuse: I’m just being honest.

We talk about why this behavior shows up so often between women, how insecurity, competition, resentment, and personal history can sit underneath it, and what it does to trust, confidence, and psychological safety.

We also get into what healthier honesty actually sounds like: addressing behavior instead of attacking identity, separating preference from fact, and being willing to say what is really underneath the criticism.

Because sometimes the most honest thing you can say has nothing to do with the other person’s choices, personality, or behavior. Sometimes it’s about what their presence is bringing up in you.

Thank you for listening to NDA!

If this episode made you think, challenged a perspective, or helped you recognize a pattern in yourself, consider sharing it with someone else who might need the conversation.

You can connect with us on Instagram at @nda_pod, where we continue the discussion between episodes.

Until next time, notice the pattern. Then decide what happens next.

Transcript

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SPEAKER_02 0:00

I think our pod listeners are really going to appreciate what we're talking about because it's a little something that I like to call weaponized honesty. We do it to ourselves, we do it to other people. And I'm going to be honest here, I think women tend to do it more than men. I really do. Oh, yeah. No question. Yeah. For sure. So, ladies, I'm calling us out. It's funny because I am positive there are listeners just hearing the two words weaponized honesty. I'm sure there are more than a few listeners who are thinking, oh, yes, because we all know someone whose entire personality is basically, I'm just being honest, right? All of you had someone pop in your mind when I just said that. I know you did. And somehow the person who says, I'm just being honest, it's almost never followed by your ass looks amazing today, or you're doing a fantastic job. I just wanted to tell you that.

SPEAKER_01 1:03

No, it's always some shit that nobody asks them. I I agree. And I think just for anybody who's maybe still wondering what we mean by weaponized honesty, it's just using that veil of oh, I'm just being honest to legitimize something that is cruel or humiliating or unsolicited criticism or some kind of social dominance. Yes, that's what we're talking about.

SPEAKER_02 1:31

It is. I remember, Amanda, there was a client we used to do business with. And do you remember this client would always say, Oh, it's so important to be ugly, honest, or brutally honest? And remember some of the people we worked with, they were like, Oh, that's brilliant. Yeah, let's always try to be ugly, honest, and brutally honest. But what I just want to get our listeners to think about why is brutality part of the value proposition? Couldn't you just be freaking helpful? And just so everyone knows, I am probably one of the most direct people you'll ever meet in your life. Amanda, can you verify that? Facts. So, what I just want to say to you pod listeners today, directness is not the issue. Direct and cruel are two different things. Most NDAs keep people quiet. Ours does the opposite. Around here, NDA means no dicks allowed.

SPEAKER_01 2:26

Not men, the behaviors that keep women small.

SPEAKER_02 2:30

This is the podcast for women who are done shrinking and ready to rise. I'm Amanda Kachurka. And I'm Elizabeth Zipola. Welcome to NDA.

SPEAKER_01 2:47

So, part of the reason that we picked this topic today was because Elizabeth actually had an experience with this recently. And so, Elizabeth, why don't you start by telling us a little bit about what happened? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 3:01

What I'm gonna share with you is something that happened to me at this point, maybe a little over a week ago. My husband and I, we went with some very close friends to a wedding. And obviously, whenever anyone goes to a wedding, you try really hard to look your best. And this particular wedding was a very, very formal black tie event. So we went really extra to try to look our best. So I don't know, ladies, when you try to go extra, we're all different, what that looks like. But for me, I like to do my hair a little nicer. I like to wear a little jewelry with a little more zing or an outfit, of course, that is more formal than I would normally wear, even just for a night out, and certainly nicer makeup. So I decided to have fun with it. And I was feeling real good. We all get there, and my husband and I greet two good friends of ours, a husband and a wife. And we all walk up and I say, Oh my gosh, you guys look so great. And the wife, again, a very longtime dear friend, says to me, Oh my god, your makeup looks awful. And I thought she was kidding at first. I'm like, haha. And she said, No, I'm serious. Your makeup looks terrible. Your makeup looks awful. So I said, Okay, I wasn't quite sure what to do with that. I did want to swear. However, Jesus and Mary's statues were looking literally right at me. So I thought, what would Jesus do? So I just tried to blow it off.

SPEAKER_01 4:36

I mean, Jesus wouldn't have said something like that to begin with, but okay, that's not stopping her.

SPEAKER_02 4:40

No, it wasn't. But I didn't want to cause a scene in the back of a church 20 minutes before a wedding ceremony, right? So I said, Okay, I I hear you. I I don't know what you want me to do with that information. And she said, Well, I'm just telling you, it doesn't look like you. I don't like your makeup at all. So I said, Listen, I'm going to walk away and go sit down. So then she triples down and she goes, I mean, Mike, looking at my husband, Mike, you have to admit, doesn't her makeup just look terrible? It doesn't even look like her. Now, my husband is a very non-confrontational person. I am the one in our relationship who isn't afraid of conflict. But he did give the wrong answer because he was trying to make peace. And he said, I mean, I don't know. Yeah, I guess it doesn't look look like her like she always looks. And as a wife, ladies, you know that was the wrong answer. I wanted my man to back me up and say, knock it off. But I said, Okay, I told them I'm gonna go sit down. I was seething the entire ceremony. Fast forward after the ceremony, we got back together with these same friends, maybe an hour before we went to the reception for the cocktail hour, just to have a drink at a local place. And my husband said, about 15 minutes after we got there and were visiting, he said to my friend, you know, I just want you to know you really, really hurt my wife's feelings. I don't know if you realize how much you offended her with what you said about her makeup. So this was the chance I'm thinking that my friend could say, Oh my gosh, I'm so sorry. Don't know what I was thinking, because now hours have passed. But no, she said, Oh my God, are you serious, Elizabeth? So what I don't like your makeup. Your makeup does look terrible. So at that point, we've covered this already, that that's your opinion.

SPEAKER_01 6:29

I did not need you to restate it. Thank you so much for your time.

SPEAKER_02 6:32

So, listeners, that's one of the things that inspired us to want to talk about this because I did exactly what we're gonna suggest you do, which is ask the person, what should I do with that? Because you would think that response would force some sort of explanation. But I'm gonna be honest, Amanda, that didn't happen with my dear friend. It did not. So the whole truth versus usefulness, sure, it was technically true. She didn't like my makeup, but did it have any business coming out of her mouth?

SPEAKER_01 7:06

It goes back to what I said uh several episodes ago where we were talking about not commenting on something that can't be fixed in 30 seconds. Right. Like you're at this event, you've got your makeup completely done. That's not something you can fix in 30 seconds. Don't comment on it. Looking at where this behavior comes from, I think is a good place to go next.

SPEAKER_02 7:29

It's almost like there's a whole genre, let's say, of female communication where, yeah, sure, the words qualify as English, but the real message is, girl, I need you to come down three notches because your existence is activating something in me. I mean, I truly now I do know, side note, I do know that this particular friend is in a difficult time of her life. It definitely does not excuse or make okay how she spoke to me. So I don't want our listeners to think it does. I'm just saying that I don't believe she wasn't really mad at my makeup, right? Yeah. There was something that about the way I looked, right, that bumped into something that was going on in her mind. So I don't know. Do you agree that it wasn't about my makeup? Yeah, I don't think it was about your makeup.

SPEAKER_01 8:16

There's a social hierarchy thing there too, gossip and judgment functioning as social currency. So that's like a strange bonding mechanism that exists, I think, especially among women, which is super, super destructive. And then I think there's personal history too, can factor in sometimes where some people just grew up in families where criticism was framed as love, preparation, or protection. True. So there it can come from a lot of places. So you and I have no idea what was going on behind the curtains in her mind, as far as what prompted that. But was it likely just coming from a place of I don't like your makeup, so I'm gonna be really adamantly opposed to it verbally?

unknown 8:57

Right.

SPEAKER_01 8:58

I doubt it.

SPEAKER_02 9:00

I do too, because again, I just want our listeners to know I'm gonna repeat it. The way I describe this story, you truly would think I looked like Gene Simmons from Kiss or something, but truly, it was not provocative, even if it was that's true, Amanda.

SPEAKER_01 9:15

Still not her business to comment. No, thank you. You can show up in the world however feels most natural to you and whatever makes you happy. That does not entitle other people to make comments about it. Yes, period.

SPEAKER_02 9:31

Absolutely. I have something that is another hot button statement of mine. This statement is something that I know before I decided to just walk away from my own mental health and well-being from my family of origin uh a few years back. This is something that was always said to me, and that is, and this goes into weaponized honesty, you've changed. So it would be delivered like a concern, but it was, I promise you, it was an insult. In my eyes, it's like, well, I freaking hope I changed at this point. I'm 49 years old, and if I'm still operating exactly like I did when I was 25, then I should hope that someone stages an intervention, right? Yeah, I've changed, my life has changed, my kids are adults, I've left jobs, I've built things, I've lost things, I've survived things, I figured out some things the hard way, and still am, by the way. So of course I changed. So for anyone who's dealing with that from anyone in in your life, any of our listeners, I believe that you've changed. I know this is what it meant, at least with my family of origin. What it really meant was you no longer behave in the way that's most convenient for me. I don't know. What are your thoughts about that, Amanda?

SPEAKER_01 10:54

I I agree. We prioritize so much of what other people's expectations are in our formative years. And then once we start coming into our own, the people who took advantage of that previous behavior really start to push back. And I actually had a boyfriend that I dated long before I met my husband who said that to me at one point. I had taken this job and it was my first job out of college, and so it was brand new work team, and I was out in the real world. And he made a comment to me about you've really changed. This job has really changed you. Like it was negative. And sure, there were some things that came out of that job that weren't positive in my evolution as a human, but there were a lot of good things, and the things that he was commenting on were specifically the things that I felt were me coming into my own and starting to realize who I was as a person.

SPEAKER_02 11:55

So he was uncomfortable because you were no longer playing the role that he assigned to you. Correct. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 12:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:02

We broke up not long after.

SPEAKER_01 12:04

There are unfortunately some people out there for one reason or another who genuinely feel like this is helpful. Right. So to understand the impact on the recipient, it creates self-consciousness, second guessing, it damages trust, it damages psychological safety. Women are already, as we've discussed in previous episodes, less likely to take risks in certain areas. And so it makes them even less likely to take risks. It reinforces competition between women. It makes someone feel like every single choice is being evaluated, like they're under a microscope, and can leave you feeling like you're too sensitive instead of evaluating whether that behavior was actually appropriate.

SPEAKER_02 12:46

A hundred percent. I always talk about this, especially with my coaching clients, behavior from identity. And we've had an episode about that. And it's something especially important that we as women need to work extra hard at doing is separating behavior from identity. So weaponized honesty, that'll sound almost like you're selfish or you're difficult, or you're too emotional, or you're controlling, or you're a bad communicator. Weaponized honesty makes a statement as though that's your identity. But the healthy way would be to address the behavior. When you interrupted me three times in that meeting, I had trouble finishing my point. Or when the deadline changed without anyone telling me, I felt blindsided. Do you see what I'm saying? Yes. So those are two completely different conversations. Weaponized honesty attacks who you are, but the other addresses what happened.

SPEAKER_01 13:39

So I always how you felt about it.

SPEAKER_00 13:41

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 13:42

The difference there is you're taking ownership of how that situation made you feel. Yes. As the person delivering the feedback. So you're you're owning, hey, when you did X, I felt Y. Yes. Instead of placing a hundred percent of the blame on the other person, I hate your makeup.

SPEAKER_02 14:00

Right. Exactly. I tell people all the time that I work with if you want someone to change something, give them something they can freaking change, right? Right. So if someone were to say you're intimidating, that's useless. But if you were to say, when you answer before I finish speaking, I stop contributing. Now that gives me something to work with. Makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 14:22

Yes. There's also impact on the person who's using honesty as a weapon, where even when legitimate feedback is needed, it erodes your credibility. And this is my favorite, it produces a self-reinforcing identity. Oh, people can't handle me because I tell the truth. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:40

Yes, yes. I am immediately suspicious of anyone who proudly wears that banner of people either love me or hate me because I tell it like it is. It's like uh immediate red flag. Red flags are waving everywhere. Did they ever think there's a third possibility that they just might be an asshole?

SPEAKER_01 15:02

I was just gonna say, I was like, there's no quicker way for someone to confirm for me that they are a massive asshole. Exactly. And when they say, Oh, people just can't handle me because I tell the truth. Right. Okay. And guess what?

SPEAKER_02 15:15

Those people they love delivering air quotes.

SPEAKER_01 15:19

Of course they do.

SPEAKER_02 15:20

Yeah. But guess who's the most delicate and fragile when responsible? Oh my god. Yeah, no question.

SPEAKER_01 15:26

Just collectively, as women, using weaponized honesty just reinforces the stereotype that women are catty and competitive and don't feel safe around each other. And it encourages conformity rather than growth and embracing authentically who we are. So it holds us all back collectively when you do that. And I know it might not in one small example of the story that you shared, you may think that's not impacting all of what, but it's all small pieces contributing to a greater whole. Right. Also looking at how to interrupt this behavior. Anytime you're wanting to deliver feedback to someone, first question that you should always ask yourself did they ask for my opinion?

SPEAKER_00 16:11

Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:12

Did they ask before you open your mouth to give them feedback or give them your opinion? Did they ask for it? Because if the answer is no, keep it zipped. Yeah. S T F U, my friend. Yeah. Second, okay, yes, they did ask for my opinion. Is this information necessary? Yes. Is it really necessary or is it just you sharing your opinion that is following up to the third question, not actionable? So is it necessary and actionable? Can they do something about it? Right. I'm gonna add, can they do something about it within 30 seconds if it's appearance related? Right. Because if the answer is no, keep it zipped. Yeah, exactly. Also, is it the right time and place for me to say something like this? So yes, they asked for my feedback. Yes, it's actionable, but is it the right time and place for this to happen? Is it something that they ask me for feedback on in front of a group of people? And I have feedback that I want to give them and it is actionable, but it's not appropriate to give it in front of other people. Yes. Setting some time outside away from the group. This is especially applicable in a work setting.

SPEAKER_02 17:17

Yes. Honesty does not require immediacy, right? No, just because something might be true right now, it doesn't need to be said right now. Correct. Sometimes you're just activated or embarrassed or pissed or jealous, or your nervous system has basically grabbed the microphone, and that's not the moment to launch your TED talk on someone else's shortcomings.

SPEAKER_01 17:38

I think also, are you the appropriate person to give that feedback is another thing to keep in mind. Is this more appropriate coming from their supervisor, from their spouse, from whomever? Because if that's the case, and you also don't need to go tell that person what your feedback is and be like, hey, can you tell so-and-so that I think blah blah blah, but make it come from you? Don't do that either. Right. That's not okay either.

SPEAKER_02 18:03

What about the people who love to try to use this loophole? Women do this especially. Again, women friendships. I'm only saying this because I care. Does caring automatically make criticism useful?

SPEAKER_01 18:16

In my mind, it makes it worse. It does saying that makes it worse because now you're packaging weaponized honesty as caring. So what are we teaching each other about what true care for another human being looks like? For sure.

SPEAKER_02 18:32

Yes. Nine times out of ten, it's about preference, right? Right. Like if someone says, I don't like tattoos, okay. Amanda and I both have, well, I only have one right now, but Amanda has a lot of beautiful tattoos, right? Thank you. Okay, that's your preference. Or I would never send my kid away to college at far. Okay, that's your preference. Or I preferred to stay home the whole time I was raising my kids so I didn't miss anything. Okay, that's your fucking preference. Fantastic news. Clearly, this is triggering something in me.

SPEAKER_01 19:06

I completely get it. There's that room for external interruption too, like when your husband came to his senses and made a comment later about, hey, that really hurt Elizabeth's feelings. When you hear this happening to other people, were they asking for feedback or were they asking for your opinion? What are you hoping she does with that information? That sounds more like preference than fact. Could you address the actual behavior rather than making it about who they are? Absolutely. So I think this is a good time to switch to our recurring segment, Shrink This, where we share a little bit about the shrinking behaviors that we've observed or exhibited lately. Can I go first?

SPEAKER_02 19:46

I do. I already teed it up, but I feel like this podcast is my confession. It's a way to show all of our listeners that we are just doing our best as well, right alongside you. You know what I did, Amanda? What'd you do? I didn't even tell you this. After the wet the comment about my makeup, you know what I did when we went back to the hotel room. I took some of it off my iMakeup. I did. Oh, and my husband, he's so cute. Obviously, he knows what I do for a living, and he knows about the whole shrinking behavior thing from our podcast. And he was standing by me.

SPEAKER_00 20:22

He's like, What are you doing? That shrinking behavior stuff. He's like, That's not the Elizabeth I know. What are you doing?

SPEAKER_02 20:30

So there, I just confessed. I'm oh I'm sorry, listener. I'm really sorry, listeners. I feel like I'm letting everyone down.

SPEAKER_01 20:37

No, like we said, we share these because we're learning, but that makes me sad because your makeup did look really nice.

SPEAKER_00 20:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:44

And also for any woman who or person for that matter who does makeup regularly and like full glam makeup, that shit takes a lot of time. It's for you to like go back and edit after that. Oh my god, girl, I would never be no, I'd be like, nope, this is my face, deal with it. Yeah, so there's my shrinking behavior. I don't like it. I know.

SPEAKER_02 21:07

I mean, I like that you recognized it, but I don't like that you and there was even someone actively staging an intervention, and I was still shrinking. So I don't know. We could unpack that some other time.

SPEAKER_01 21:16

We could. So my shrinking behavior, this is a series of moments, a pattern of behavior, if you will, versus something I've just done one time and caught myself. I have recently noticed that when I'm speaking to men in particular, I find myself speaking louder, interrupting, like ultimately, what it boils down to is trying to make sure that I'm heard and understood. And my husband and I were talking about something recently, and I got a little heated. And I realized as I was talking about it with my therapist afterward, she was like, Did you feel heard and understood in that moment? And I thought for a second. And I said, no, I didn't. She said, okay. So now we're going through the exercise of thinking back to different male figures in my life who have created a pattern for me of not feeling heard and understood, and why that's resulting in like an automatic response from me, especially if I start to get emotionally charged in any way.

SPEAKER_00 22:24

Okay, right.

SPEAKER_01 22:25

That I like completely lose sight of my rational brain and start reaching for all of the emotional tools.

SPEAKER_02 22:32

Oh, yeah. We talked about it when I was discussing my daughter, how she was getting loud and yelling when we were talking about political viewpoints.

SPEAKER_01 22:42

Yeah. So it's something that I definitely want to do a deeper dive into, but it's noticing that this is a pattern for me. Right. So I'm at the early stages of trying to do something about correcting my shrinking behavior. I've never heard you get real loud or anything. You're also not a man. Thanks.

SPEAKER_00 23:04

Thanks for the reminder.

SPEAKER_02 23:05

But I've seen working with men who are very obnoxious and misogynistic, and I've never seen you behave that way.

SPEAKER_01 23:11

I will get more emotional the better that I know the person. Okay. So I will like try to keep it under control as much as I can. But unfortunately, a lot of times, as we've also discussed on a previous episode, what happens with me when I bottle my emotions too much? Oh yeah, she's an angry crier, folks. And then I start crying. So it's just a bad situation. There's no winner here. This is a lose-lose completely for me. So I definitely need to do something about it. So that's this is a shrinking behavior awareness situation. I haven't found the solution yet. So update on a later episode when I actually find a solution and figure out what the hell I'm gonna do about this.

SPEAKER_02 23:52

All right, I'm here for it. Do you mind if I kind of tie up a few points that I wanted to make today? I would love it. It's really important to Amanda and I that we don't want any of our listeners to think that the point of today's episode is that you should stop being honest because that would destroy the entire podcast. And God knows we're we would never advocate for that, right? How I would actually like to pose it is that we need more honesty, but real honesty, not the you're selfish. Real honesty might be, I really miss you, or not you think you're better than everybody. Real honesty might look like I feel insecure around you. Not you've changed. Real honesty might be, I'm scared our relationship is changing. And last but not least, using myself as an example, not you're too much, which I've heard so often. Real honesty might be sometimes your intensity overwhelms me, and I don't know how to jump into the conversation. And that's literally something my husband has said when we're out in a social environment, and that gives me something to work with. So maybe the opposite, Amanda, of weaponized honesty isn't being nicer, maybe it's being honest enough to say the thing underneath the thing.

SPEAKER_01 25:08

Yeah, it's being okay with talking about how someone's behavior made you feel and owning your part in the situation instead of placing all of the blame on someone else.

SPEAKER_02 25:22

Yes. And ladies, if you're listening and you're in a friendship or romantic relationship or familial relationship where you find that the person always gives you a one-two punch verbally and then says, I care about you.

SPEAKER_01 25:37

Or just kidding.

SPEAKER_02 25:38

Or just kidding, that is not healthy. That is not okay.

SPEAKER_01 25:41

And that's a relationship that, if it's going to continue that way, is not worth your time and energy. Definitely not. Definitely not.