NDA: No D*cks Allowed
Most NDAs keep people quiet. Ours does the opposite.
On this podcast, NDA stands for No D*cks Allowed — not men, but the behaviors that keep women small. Each episode explores the patterns women experience in work and life, and the moments when they decide they’re done shrinking and ready to rise.
NDA: No D*cks Allowed
The Competence Curse
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You're the one everyone depends on. The one who always steps up, solves the problem, picks up the slack, remembers the details, and gets things done.
Those qualities make you incredibly valuable. But they can also become the very things that keep you stuck.
In this episode, we unpack what Amanda calls the competence curse: the pattern where women become known for their reliability and execution, only to find themselves overlooked for opportunities to lead, influence, and grow.
But this pattern doesn't just show up at work.
It shows up in our friendships, our families, our relationships, and even in the expectations we place on ourselves. The more capable we become, the more people come to rely on us, until solving everyone else's problems starts to feel like part of our identity.
Together, we explore why so many women learn to equate their "place" in life and work with being indispensable, how that mindset quietly reinforces itself over time, and what it takes to stop being seen as the person who fixes everything and start creating space for yourself, and the people around you, to grow.
Because competence shouldn't be a cage, it should be the foundation upon which you build your next chapter.
Thank you for listening to NDA!
If this episode made you think, challenged a perspective, or helped you recognize a pattern in yourself, consider sharing it with someone else who might need the conversation.
You can connect with us on Instagram at @nda_pod, where we continue the discussion between episodes.
Until next time, notice the pattern. Then decide what happens next.
Today's subject is something that is very near and dear to my heart, and it's something that I have a lot of experience with as well. And that is what I lovingly call the competence curse. I think sometimes when you're known as the competent person, you sort of get stuck into that mold, and then your competence becomes what you're known for. And it's hard for people to envision you moving into other roles, especially elevated roles, when you're a really strong executor. Okay. But it's coming from other people where once you prove yourself that you're a really good executor, people kind of put you in that box. And then if you want to strive toward roles where you're more of a visionary or somebody who is generating ideas or leading teams, and you're stuck in that executor box, it's hard to break out of in other people's minds on the team. But then we also do it to ourselves. There's this really, really deep need to prove your value. And so I think it kind of comes from both sides, right? Is if oh, I can be known as the reliable one, or I can be known as the solid get it done person, then that's gonna solidify my value to the team. And therefore I am then harder to replace.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that makes sense because I've actually done that my whole career. I'm gonna go way the heck back to my first job. I worked at an amusement park here, the hometown that I grew up in. If something needed to be done, I would always be the person to say, fine, I'll just do it. And it used to get rewarded, right? Especially when you're earlier in your life, in your family when you're growing up or with friends, or even maybe you're volunteering in your kiddo's PTO group or something, but it gets rewarded and people like that. But then, especially when you become a leader, for me, I found that then nobody reporting to me would get the chance to grow. So I would say I overcame it. I mean, you would know better than me because you literally reported to me for several years before we started our own venture, but that is something that can really happen easily, I would think. Most NDAs keep people quiet. Ours does the opposite.
SPEAKER_00Around here, NDA means no dicks allowed. Not men, the behaviors that keep women small. This is the podcast for women who are done shrinking and ready to rise. I'm Amanda Kachurka.
SPEAKER_01And I'm Elizabeth Cipola.
SPEAKER_00Welcome to NDA. As always, it's important to look at the origins of this behavior and where it comes from. So, as we've talked many times before, the behaviors that we are rewarded for growing up early in life, being responsible, being dependable, being helpful, making life easier for everyone else. Of course, those traits certainly have value, but there are a lot of organizations that take it to a more extreme level where leaders love employees who never complain, always deliver, solve problems independently, don't create additional work, rescue struggling projects. And so they create an environment where those employees become indispensable. And that feels like success because things are getting done, right? The work is getting done, it's getting done at a high quality. But I think that does put them in a situation where they're rewarding the execution more consistently than thinking strategically. When you're looking at leaders who are trying to create good teams as far as what's traditionally been done. And I think a lot of organizations still struggle with this, right? Because when you're looking at creating a great employee versus a future leader, those aren't always the same thing.
SPEAKER_01No, definitely not. And you're right. I think a lot of times it's the lines are blurred for sure.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So I think this creates situations that are tough because, especially for women, the behaviors that make great leaders, it can be more difficult for women to exhibit those in the workplace and have it be received well. But I think in a way that's caused us to sort of pigeonhole ourselves into well, this is the easiest path for us to get to leadership roles. As I was putting together some thoughts for today's episode, this thought occurred to me and it really resonated deeply to the point where I was like, okay, I just need to take a minute every time I would solve a problem for a fellow employee, for my supervisor. I was creating a pattern that would teach them the kinds of work to give me. Okay, yes. So I think over time, people in this situation, my supervisors, not you, of course, we had a completely different relationship than any working relationship I'd ever had in a very good way. But eventually people stopped thinking, oh, she could lead this and start thinking she can fix this. Oh, yeah. Yes. I was like, oh, I definitely owned, and I know we talked about it on one episode before, but I think just in prep for this episode, the fact that I have taught people, and this is personally and professionally, to treat me as the fixer. That was a very eye-opening moment for me.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. It makes me think as a leader, what can more aware leaders try to do differently? What can the listeners to this podcast try to do differently? I certainly tried to do this, definitely, especially in the last like 10, 15 years of my career when I would say I was much more self-aware, pay attention to the people who are constantly raising their hand on the team. So you are always raising your hand, right? Instead of saying, Oh, thanks, Amanda will handle that, instead say, Okay, great. Amanda, can you teach Julie how to handle that? Right. So if the same person is always owning the work, yes, you're right, you're teaching others how to treat you. But organizationally speaking, then the organization is never going to build more leaders.
SPEAKER_00Right. Right. I think another helpful question as a leader looking at somebody like me, am I giving them this work to help them grow? Or am I giving them this work because I know they'll do it?
SPEAKER_01Oh, yes, I really like that. And sometimes it's not even about growth, to be honest, because I'm even thinking of I'm thinking of my friends, right? So I have a core group of really close friends. And when we get together socially, there are certain people that always fall into the role of handling certain things. And I'm sure a lot of our listeners can relate to that. So one thing that you can do, even just with your friends, is that friend that's constantly raising their hand that they'll plan it or they'll make the calls or they'll research the reviews for the restaurant. I don't know, whatever it is. Instead of saying, okay, and letting them do that, I'm almost wondering if you could even say, do you really want to do that? Or are you just the person who always does?
SPEAKER_00Right. Because is it something they actually enjoy doing?
SPEAKER_01Right, right. And sometimes there are sadistic people like you, Amanda, who truly love to do that. I love researching. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I not this girl. Nope. So sometimes just even being a good friend to another and asking them, do you really want to do that? Or is it just something you always do? I think it's something you actually enjoy.
SPEAKER_00And I think that's applicable in a work setting too, having a conversation around is this work you actually enjoy doing? Because if so, great. And that's where some open and honest and vulnerability modeling is going to be really important because it's easy as a woman in a workplace when you're asked, is this work you actually enjoy? Oh, yeah, I really enjoy it. It's not a problem. And that's not actually the truth. So I think that conversation needs to be coupled with modeling some vulnerability of your own and saying there are things that I've done in my career and give an example of work that I was good at, but it really didn't light me up inside. And so finding ways to give that work to somebody who does really enjoy it and allow you to lean into something else that maybe you're not currently doing that brings you a lot of joy. Right. So I think that vulnerability piece is super important.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, definitely. And and as women, we become so competent that everyone just stops even trying to attempt to figure things out for themselves. So this just happened this past weekend. Myself, my husband, and our daughter got together with another family that we're real good friends with, right? And and their daughter, and we were just all hanging out, all the adults. Now, mind you, our daughters, just in case our listeners don't know, one of them is 18, one of them is soon to be 20. So these are not little girls. Okay. So what had happened is my friend and I, we were both saying, We're exhausted, we don't want to cook, we don't want to worry what's going on for dinner. We're just enjoying sitting outside, enjoying a campfire. And our daughters texted us. They were driving around together and they said, We're hungry. And I was like, Okay, like literally, that's what I said. Well, what are you guys eating? I don't know, because we're not hungry. And they would so they were so flambergasted, and they said, You mean we have to figure it out and buy something ourselves? And I'm like, Yeah, yep, gotta go. So it showed me clearly, I've been teaching my daughter that that's how mothers, that's how women behave. Yeah, do everything for everyone else. I don't know.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it and it does. This is an excellent point to illustrate this, actually. It creates dependence. So not only are you putting yourself in a situation where you're taking on too much or holding yourself to really high standards, trying to fix everything, putting out fires, but also you've now stopped other people from learning. The knowledge transfer isn't happening, right? Everything bottlenecks, and the team becomes slower because one person has become too effective.
SPEAKER_01Right. Oh, totally. And then it's literally like you said, it's a bottleneck. That's what happens.
SPEAKER_00And then you go in for a promotion conversation and you hear things like, Oh, we just can't afford to lose you. You're so valuable where you are.
SPEAKER_01Right. Yeah, you're exactly right. You're so valuable where you are, and then you stay stuck. Competence is beautiful, it is a beautiful thing, but when it becomes a part of your identity, that's a red flag. Do you have any ideas just from someone who's lived this? I gave an example in my own life from this past weekend with my daughter and her friend's reaction of how clearly it has become a part of my identity to them as a mother. Do you have any red flags where you realized, holy shit, this is a part of my identity, my competence?
SPEAKER_00There's not like one specific example that comes to mind, but because this has happened in literally every job I've ever had in some capacity, it's funny because I used to think that it was super interesting that a lot of the positions that I've had in my career were either first to the organization, completely brand new, or I ended up expanding the capacity for the role significantly. I used to be super proud of that, but as I reflected on it more, it was like, oh no, that happened because I kept taking on things that really should not have been part of my responsibilities. Okay. So I look back at a lot of my positions and how burnt out I was by the time I left most of them. Right. And it's like, well, yeah, no wonder I was doing the job of two people, three people. Were you afraid of disappointing people? Or were you afraid of it? Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01You were okay. I was just wondering what your motive was.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. Afraid of disappointing people, afraid of being replaced. I think it comes from the fact that I was fired from my very first job out of college. That was my first, like, quote unquote, big girl job, and I was super excited. And it just there were a lot of reasons that it didn't work out. And I think that experience and having the rug ripped out from underneath me, so to speak, just really threw me for a loop. And it was like, okay, I need to do whatever I can to make sure I'm not in that situation ever again. So I have to make myself indispensable.
SPEAKER_01Got it. So just like we've talked about 101 times, and you know it's like a core tenant of some of our bel lived beliefs as women, is it was fear-based, right? Sure. Yep. Yeah, absolutely. So, like your competence or the way you were behaving to be so competent, that wasn't the problem. But when we allow ourselves to get curious about it, then we can pay attention because that's information, that's data, and we can get curious about it. And curiosity, that's different than something you used the word earlier to be proud of or impressed with yourself by. But ask yourself, what need am I trying to meet? Because anyone's behavior always has a reason. I would encourage our listeners to get curious not only with yourselves, but get curious with your daughters or with your friends or with your employees, whatever category we're talking about, because there's always something else going on underneath it. And as soon as you allow yourself to ask what that is and get curious about the need you're trying to meet, that's what leads you to making choices that come from a self-aware grounded place instead of out of fear.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. I think instead of if you're approaching it from the mindset of instead of solving every problem that's brought to you, that curiosity can serve you in starting to ask better questions. So instead of being the answer, become the person who helps other people find their own answers.
SPEAKER_01Yes, which is actually a lot more rewarding, I'll be honest.
SPEAKER_00It really is. Be somebody that historically has come to you for everything, and now you're enabling them to come to their own solutions and ask questions and get curious and make new discoveries and learn things, it's really cool to watch that development. And that's a great leadership skill to be able to do that. Yeah, it's a good idea. And then you're also training yourself.
SPEAKER_01If you're a manager or leader, it's good for your employees to see you behave that way. The vast majority of listeners of our podcast are women, women who care about helping other women rise. And so if that's you and you're listening to today's episode, when you do that, it also is teaching the other women around you how to behave. And as mothers, like I said, you're teaching your daughter, you're unintentionally modeling what your daughter thinks is the best way to survive and exist as a woman, as a mother, fill in the blank. So that's another thing to keep in mind. It is for sure.
SPEAKER_00I was looking at my career progression through totally different eyes. And it's it's funny because it should have been a trigger at the end of virtually everywhere I've ever worked where it's been an exercise in could we have you redraft your job description because you've expanded the role so much? And like at no point did it occur to me that girl, what are you doing? Right. There's one your responsibilities went from 10 bullets to like 25 bullets, that's a problem. Nope, I'm like, this is fine.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, this is fine because you thought it was your identity. It's not right. No, it's not fine. It's fine until it isn't. And ladies, if you are the one who's constantly grumbling to her girlfriends, or even just quietly in your mind about why nobody ever helps you, but then also in the next breath, you never actually let anyone help you. Just thought I'd point that out again. It's something I'd say probably 99.9% of women fall into if we're not careful. Yep.
SPEAKER_00So I think we can switch to our shrink this for the week. I actually have one to share from a listener. Oh, let's hear it. I love those. We received a message to our Instagram profile from Nicole. Thank you so much. Shout out to Nicole. Thank you for listening. Hi, I just started listening. I'm maybe four episodes in. I love your podcast. I wanted to tell you that when Amanda said in episode one how she was shrinking herself by saying, I'm just an intern, I related so much. I started out as a registration clerk 15 years ago at the health system I work at and pretty quickly moved up the ranks to become a subject matter expert, and we'd be pulled into meetings to share my input. Back then, I'd feel like I didn't belong at those meetings and would say, I'm just a registration clerk, even though my opinions were important enough to get me a seat at that table. Fast forward 15 years, I'm a department director with several supervisors under me and close to 80 staff. And just a few days ago, I was with one of the supervisors helping them interview new staff. And even then, as her boss and this person's potential future boss, I introduced myself as just the director. Even with 15 years of experience, I'm diminishing my own position. Anyway, I'm not she did. She said, Anyway, I'm not gonna do that anymore. I earned that title and deserve that title and deserve my presence in those rooms and at those tables, and I'm not going to shrink myself by adding just in front of my title anymore. Yay, Nicole. It gives me chills every time I read it. Like I've read it, full disclosure, I've read it three or four times since I got it because it just made me so happy.
SPEAKER_01Oh my god.
SPEAKER_00But I just it gave me goosebumps because that's exactly what this is all about is getting you to think a little differently when you're feeling yourself switch into those old patterns.
SPEAKER_01Yes, exactly. Nicole, thank you for writing in and sharing your shrinking example. You just articulated perfectly. Awareness creates choice, and choice creates change, right? Now you're aware of it. Now you catch it, now you're gonna make a different choice that's gonna lead you down the path of representing yourself in the way that is authentic to who you are. I love that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so thank you again to Nicole for writing in. It's great to hear from you. And we're so happy that you listen and enjoy the podcast. And tell your friends. Yeah, definitely. Do you have a shrinking behavior you'd like to share, Elizabeth?
SPEAKER_01I do. Like every entrepreneur who's building a business, as you and I are outside of this podcast, there are things that I mean, it's no secret. I'm really desperately excited to have them. I keep catching myself trying to force the timeline that I think everything needs to be up to par with. And you know this, Amanda. The timelines that I have are completely, completely unrealistic. I mean, they are always for all things. I'm also time blind, too, right? Or time optimistic. So I this week caught myself trying to force a timeline for something that in my own brain I wanted to happen a certain kind of way. And I caught myself doing the usual things I do to try to impose this crazy timeline. I was thinking about it more, researching, planning, just trying to do more because somewhere in my brain, I have this belief that is so tough for me to shake that if I push harder, life will cooperate faster. And then twice that's right, twice today. Two things that I've been trying to force literally just simply work themselves out without me. And it just it's another very necessary reminder for people who are stubborn learners like me who have to learn everything the hard way, that intensity it's not the same thing as influence. So if I can just somehow remember to put my foot on the brake a little bit more, and that can be the fastest way forward. But for me, control has always felt productive. And this goes back to my earlier upbringing. I learned that trusting people doesn't usually work out for you. So it's just reteaching myself and learning how to trust the process. So I would say that's my example.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's real hard when you're building a business to trust the process.
SPEAKER_01It is. Does it ever get easier? I'd love to hear from any of our listeners who are way further ahead than us as entrepreneurs. Does it get easier to trust the process?
SPEAKER_00I don't know. It truly, it's something that I struggle with too. And I think it's that constant and and us, I think having very driving personalities doesn't help because we always are going to want this to grow faster than it would ever be realistic to expect. But that doesn't mean I'm gonna stop doing it.
SPEAKER_01But if we can just slow down a little bit, it makes me think of another coaching client of mine who she has a pretty driving temperament as well. And in her case, she's in a leadership role. And so, as you and I can both relate, Amanda, nothing ever goes as quickly as she would prefer. So I always like to offer up and introduce different tools, but very practical tools. All of us have heard of the acronym STFU, right? And that stands for shut the I'm trying not to swear as much. So shut the bleep up. So I'm like, okay, here's the tool. You're gonna write this acronym on sticky notes, put it everywhere, but your acronym is STFD. Slow the beep down. So that is she's like, oh my god, it worked. Everything I'm like, STFD, STFD. And she couldn't believe like how her team was responding differently and actually moving faster to do what it wanted.
SPEAKER_00The point that you made just a second ago about tapping the brakes in order to move forward. Yeah, I know. Yeah, I should write that on a post-it note and stick it in front of me so I see it all the time. Because as soon as you said that, I was like, Yeah, yep, that's that's good advice. Love it. Yeah. So thank you again to Nicole for sharing her shrinking behavior and being willing to have us share it on the episode today. If you have shrinking behavior that you would like to share, or if you have a question about shrinking behavior, please reach out to us on Instagram. We are at NDA underscore pod. Always happy to hear from you. And again, just continue building this platform where we can learn and grow together. So, some closing thoughts for today's podcast. I think so many women reach plateaus in their careers because they keep demonstrating the skills that got them where they are instead of demonstrating the skills required for where they want to go. And they're not completely the sole guilty party for that. I think it's encouraged in a lot of environments as well. Being dependable is valuable, being competent is valuable. But if every opportunity reinforces the same reputation, don't be surprised when people keep giving you the same role.
SPEAKER_01Right. I love it. And then also kind of building upon that for our listeners, if you care truly about helping yourself and other women of all ages to rise, think about what we can do to change this. And think about what you're rewarding. So whether you're a mother, a friend, a leader, or even just what you're rewarding within yourself, within your own mind, praise curiosity, praise boundaries, praise leadership, and praise independent thinking, not helpfulness.
